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Oh NY Times....

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:50 pm
by Secretary Of Pocky
Not sure how many people have read this already but:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/magazine/26FOB-2DLove-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

Found this on /a/

Re: Oh NY Times....

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:20 pm
by hanyou-no-miko
Jesus Christ. Even speaking as someone who spent her high school years head-over-heels for a 2D character, I am really, really fucking creeped out right now.

(Also, Furuba fans--the fact that the 2D guru's name is Honda Tohru; creepy y/n?)

Re: Oh NY Times....

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:31 am
by HettGutt
Oh boy...

And I thought I was Most Likely to Die Alone...

Re: Oh NY Times....

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:59 am
by Kathy Moon
It's not all that creepy of a name...Isn't it a guy's name to begin with?
I think the strangest thing was that they found someone willing to talk about it. There's a pretty wide range of this behavior, from "I can't get a date and I'm compensating" to "This is so much easier than dealing with a real romance" to "What, exactly, do I need other people for?" (answer: to make anime). And that's fine! Real people, and real relationships, are a LOT of hassle. They're not for everyone! And we shouldn't pretend they are. If being near someone gives you an endorphin rush, well and good! If you get can the same feeling from being near a pillow...well, in the long run it'll probably be cheaper and just as satisfying to go with the pillow, and nobody gets hurt if you dump it. The world's got enough unhappy relationships already.

Re: Oh NY Times....

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:04 pm
by hanyou-no-miko
...except that humans are a social, dependent species of primate and it is a biological impossibility for a neurotypical human to derive the same feeling of fulfillment from a one-sided, make-believe interaction with an inanimate object as from real, face-to-face, human interaction. We're DESIGNED for relationships (which, by definition, involve more than one PERSON). If you can't see why obsessively taking a pillow bedecked with a sexualized image of a child about with you IN PUBLIC and calling it a "relationship" is seriously unhealthy and indicative of a major problem, then...I can't even say anything to that, really. I think it's a symptom of our society that anyone could even entertain the notion that that sort of behavior is okay.

(Also I didn't mean his name was inherently creepy; just that I was sketched for train-of-thought reasons independent of that fact).

Re: Oh NY Times....

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:34 pm
by HettGutt
I gotta go with Kathy (Sorry, Meg!) - the human mind is pretty crazy. Some guys who hate the hassle of relationships turn into pickup artists or turn abusive. Getting dumped, rejected, or ignored enough by human women has been enough to make average single guys into rapists, porn addicts, and stalkers. Others who spend massive amounts of time alone and friendless soak in their own self-pity and misery enough to end up antisocial or suicidal. I figure if "dating" a fictional character makes these guys truly happy, good for them.

Re: Oh NY Times....

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:01 pm
by Kathy Moon
I don't think it's impossible to get the same emotional lift from an image, especially if you weren't getting it from the reality. That might simply fall into the "don't know what you're missing" category, but then, maybe they don't care, or don't want to know.
In conclusion: I disagree that it's better to have loved and lost than never loved at all. You'll have the unhappy memories forever. And while unhappiness in general can't be avoided, that specific misery could be.

Re: Oh NY Times....

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:29 pm
by SoxMike
Kathy Moon wrote:I don't think it's impossible to get the same emotional lift from an image, especially if you weren't getting it from the reality. That might simply fall into the "don't know what you're missing" category, but then, maybe they don't care, or don't want to know.
In conclusion: I disagree that it's better to have loved and lost than never loved at all. You'll have the unhappy memories forever. And while unhappiness in general can't be avoided, that specific misery could be.

Disclaimer: I have no authority to make psychological evaluations.

I think it's worth noting, to that regard, that one of the men in the article claimed that he wanted to actually get married (and, by implication, connect intimately with another human being), but was completely at a loss for how to do so/lacking in any psychological drive to do so. From that admission I get the distinct impression that he knows he doesn't feel the same sense of fulfillment he believes is possible from legit human connection (which, ironically, he likely came to understand from watching anime), but has been relying on his 2D affection as a substitute for so long he can't contemplate leaving it and/or is frightened of the side-effects (such as the ones Kathy mentioned) that inevitably come along.

In the end, I think it comes down to that we are hard-wired, as Meg noted, for true human interactions. There is some implicit desire to be at least liked by other people, and I'm pretty sure there is some drive to be loved as well. I can't believe that there is not some desire/need, possibly as a side-effect of our sentience, which gives us the ability to actually "understand" others, to be ourselves "understood."

Re: Oh NY Times....

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:33 pm
by Mike
Kathy Moon wrote:In conclusion: I disagree that it's better to have loved and lost than never loved at all. You'll have the unhappy memories forever. And while unhappiness in general can't be avoided, that specific misery could be.

Couldn't you say that you would also have the happy memories forever?

Re: Oh NY Times....

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:24 pm
by Jed
Mike wrote:Couldn't you say that you would also have the happy memories forever?

I generally just try to forget that the whole thing ever happened...or, at least, avoid thinking about it at all. In my experience, reminiscing about happy memories inevitably leads to regret.